Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 20 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1233



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Amorphous Aliens
Re: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)
Re: Space Opera?
Re: Traveller 3D Model Sites
[Supporting our game] Where did the Travellers come from?
Re: Traveller Auction Update 
Traveller Nanotech not-run-amok: here's how
Canon, background, etc
Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle
Re: Traveller Nanotech not-run-amok: here's how
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)
Re: GTL9 Standard Components
Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle
RE: Cybernetic Implants
RE: PBeM TCS Islands Campaign
Re: Traveller Nanotech not-run-amok: here's how
Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!
RE: GT: Starships
Re: test - ignore
Re: archives
Re: Amorphous Aliens

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:40:09 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Amorphous Aliens

Hmmm...we had a discussion some time ago abou such a race; the interesting
thing about them being that they would devlop calculus before they
developed algebra, since without digit's it would be unlikely that finite
math would come as easily to them as the nuances of change over time,
since they would be limited to application of varying amounts of
forse/area etc to manipulate their world.

This had implications for language, and in fact the duscussion started as
a discussion of a race that used color as their language. 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Charles Collin wrote:

> Hi all.
> 
> One thing I've always thought was "cool but hard to swallow" in SF is
> amorphous aliens.  Has anyone used something akin to these in their TU? 
> 
> To my mind there are two basic types of these:  The ameboid and the
> doppleganger.  Star Frontiers' Dralasites were a fun but silly version of
> the first type, while Odo from ST:DS9 is probably the most well-known
> second type. Ameboids can change shape and maybe texture or color to a
> limited degree but cannot imitate other beings or objects convincingly. 
> Dopplegangers are more flexible and can mimic things with high fidelity.
> 
> IMO, the latter type are a little too "science-fantasy" for a Traveller
> setting, but I've been toying with the idea of introducing an ameboid race
> to MTU.  My problem is coming up with a reasonable evolutionary course for
> their development.  
> 
> One rather bizarre and almost Lovecraftian notion I've been thinking about
> is what I call the "bag of bugs" model of amorphous development.  In this
> scenario the amoeba race is decended from some kind of hive-insect with a
> queen+workers type of society.  Occasionally such hive-insects will mass
> together for warmth and protection into a "big bundle of bugs" (the
> technical term :-). I was thinking, what if such an insect species
> developed the trait of creating a membranous sac around the mass for
> further protection?  What if, over time, hives developed into essentially
> single physical entities with queens at the center sending out pheromonal
> messages to control her "body", made up of a mass of workers.  In some
> sense this is what they already do, though in a more wide-rangeing and
> less direct way.  The workers in the mass could hook together to create
> different shapes.  Given enough time, sufficient control might be
> developed to create manipulatory limbs and such.  
> 
> As evolution proceeded, the workers would lose much of the "baggage" 
> needed to operate as individual entities, becoming essentially small cell
> masses with the ability to interlock with others in various configurations
> depending on the signals reaching them.  In order for intelligence to
> develop, the queen would have to become a massively hypertrophied thing
> with the brain integral to her alone, I think.  She would also become the
> seat of primary metabolic function and so on, sending out nutrients to the
> cell-masses that make up her body. 
> 
> Hmm, what about reproduction?  Essentially, one queen would lay another
> queen, who would "lay" a bunch of workers to act as a body for herself.  
> 
> Well, I said the idea was bizarre, didn't I? :-)  I'd really like to get
> people's input and reactions to this idea.  Too outlandish?  Are there
> major problems I haven't thought of?  
> 
> Ciao,
> Charles C.
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:45:38 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)

At 04:44 AM 10/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>Do you know how out of print those things are?
>
>Mmph, maybe I should scan some in and send them to you.

Wow.  I just realized that being a SJ Games employee gets me around the
whole copyright issue.

<on my hands and knees> Can you pretty please with sugar on top scan them
and email them to me? </on my hands and knees>


>>Of course, I am just a web-monkey, so I don't have an
>>real impact on sales or marketing decisions.
>
>...but what an obvious piece of bait left dangling out to see if the TML
>bites!! (presumably then forwarding all the
>"yes-please-we-want-them-RIGHT-NOW!" messages direct to Steve  ;-)
>
>BTW it worked - "Harumph. Why, yes-I'd-buy-them".  ;-)

Heh.  Actually, beyond forwarding comments that I hear from SJ Games
customers, I don't do anything when it comes to sales and marketing.  That
is, if you don't look at my work on the SJ Games website as marketing.


>(BTW, Keith, did SJG take note of our earlier poll about marketable items -
>eg caps with Imperial insignia, etc?? Loren, hello?)

If I see anything interesting, I forward it on to the powers that be.  One
of the things I have forwarded is the marketable items thread.

Doing stuff like this is not why I am part of this mailing list, but it
makes a nice justification for spending my work hours reading the TML. ;)


_________________________________________________________

Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com

 IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Space Opera?

On Tue, 19 Oct 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> >>> Well,  Kiri, the big problem is that you won't find a whole lot of support
> >>> for Traveller as space opera here on the list. If you corner most folks
> >>> 'round here, they'll deny it vehemently. Personally, I don't disagree with
> >>> you too much, but there are still folks who cling to Traveller as some 
> > sort
> >>> of hard sci-fi.
> >
> >>The canon, the background, is pure space opera.  That doesn't mean it's
> >>NOT hard SF.  You can have space opera without psionics, and with
> >>gearheads.
> >
> > I've realized that Space Opera doesn't have a very good definition.  To
> > some it is highly cinematic, soft science (banking space fighters "Lensmen
> > type") SF.  To other is simply means that you have things that don't exist
> > in modern society (FTL Travel, psionics, etc.).  Whether Traveller is Space
> > Opera depends on your definition.
> 
> Actually, the original definition was fairly clear. It included the
> Lensman series, the Skylark series, Campbell's later Arcot, Morey &
> Wade stories, etc.
> 
> Basicly you had to have "grand sweep" (ie worrying about whole
> civilizations, not mere worlds), larger than life characters, and
> ususally escalating superweapon vs superweapon duels between the good
> guys and the bad guys. 
> 
Everything I write in a futuristic setting, every Traveller and Star Trek
RPG system game I ever ran, and every Traveller campaign that I have ever
been in, met this definition.  Hell, that's what gearheads DID in most of
our games-- built superweapons/superships/super gear so that we COULD be
larger than life.  And why do Marines carry cutlasses if this is not space
opera?  Pirates- space opera.  Your pets walking upright and shooting at
you-- space opera.  Enemies in trubans with psi powers-- space opera.  The
first drawing I ever saw of a Zhodani looked exactly like Ming the
Merciless to my 16-year-old eyes.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:57:29 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller 3D Model Sites

Hmmm, none, yet, there are a few of us playing with 3D stuff for trav,
most notablyt the Master High Modeller Jesse, but we all seem to be using
different programs, Lightwave, Strata Studio Pro (Hey Jesse! Just got
upgraded to SSP 2.5.3 from 1.75, now I should be able to pull
off some nice tricks now..it's much improved over the version I was
using), POV-Ray, and several others. There was talk a while back about a
Traveller 3D artists ring, but I don't know whare that stands right now.

In reality, there are a number of ways to share modelling data, .DXF
files, or there are several programs both Mac and Win that do conversion
chores.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, LLOYD ROBINSON wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> I recently upgraded my computer and got a copy of trueSpace 4. I have 
> seen model sites that have collections for Star Wars and Babalon 5. I was 
> wondering if there were any sites like those that specialized in models for 
> Traveller.
> 
> Lloyd
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:06:37 -0500
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: [Supporting our game] Where did the Travellers come from?

I suggest that a significant part of Traveller's popularity originally
came from wargamers, which probably came from veterans,
the children of veterans, and people otherwise interested in the
wars [ WWII, Korea, Vietnam ] which seemed to be higher
profile than today.  Of course, back in the early 70s all adults
watched media shots of Vietnam on the news.

Then, perhaps it was important to be pro- or anti- war.  Now,
generations X and Y never *had* to think about fighting a ground
war.  Not much anyway.  I don't know if this is because we look at
war differently, or because we haven't joined a big one, or because
the media changed its mind on how to portray them.

I know this isn't the whole reason for RPGs decline in popularity,
but I do think it's an indicator... culture shifts around...

In fact, someone mentioned cards.  My grandfather and all his
friends played dominoes, because playing cards was seen as
the mark of the wicked or foolish.  But I think now it's not so
strict there, and folks in general assume the cards do not have
a bad influence on character.

Now, how to cast Traveller as a story to be told?  Isn't that
the lasting strength of Traveller: a history that can be retold
to others to excite their imagination?  So there is where the
real power in Traveller lies, eh?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:14:48 -0700
From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Auction Update 

At 04:44 AM 10/20/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> Of course, it's
>> pretty difficult to talk about the format of a product that might never see
>> the light of day. :)
>
>Considering the product would be cheep to produce and make a decent buck
in sales, I couldn't see why they wouldn't go for it.

Cheap and successful are relative terms.  Especially if you are the person
spending the money for the print run. ;)

While I am a dedicated Traveller fan who would definately buy them,
printing them is no guarantee that they will sell.  Heck, without
miniatures it might be a stupid idea to release them now.  There really
isn't much out there for Traveller miniatures right now, and the Cardboard
Heroes for Traveller isn't a sure thing, set in stone, or even in the
production queue.

My *personal* opinion is that releasing a set of deck plans for several
common ships and simultaneously releasing a large amount of Cardboard
Heroes for Traveller (similar to the Cardboard Heroes reprint) would be the
best way to do it.  Of course, that is just my opinion, and the company
might choose to do something that is more of a sure thing.



_________________________________________________________

Rev. Keith Johnson      /\     keith@sjgames.com
Assistant Webmaster    /()\    keithalanjohnson@home.com
Steve Jackson Games   /____\   reverendkeith@hotmail.com

 IMTU tm+ t4+@ tg++$ ru- ge-@ st+ pi+ he+ dr+ hi-@ zh+
_________________________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:20:59 -0500
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: Traveller Nanotech not-run-amok: here's how

Thanks Alan for additional nanotech input.
So then, nanotech need not destroy Traveller's economy.
I say again: set bounds on it!

* Converters of a particular raw material to another particular raw material, or
* Creators of atomic lattices
...which is a nice way to produce certain starship hull alloys

Now, set some serious bounds on it:

* Nanots are produced in an expensive, specialized factory
(which only produces one type of nanot)
* Nanots are simple; that's what makes them affordable, but then
* Nanots are one-function only
(Nanots do not reproduce: that would be their one-function!)
* Nanots have a half-life

Make them expensive and limited.  If you want, make them critical
for a technology and you've got the makings of an interstellar
collapse.

> The thing is, why should we *care* about what goes on in factories and
> laboratories?  As long as nanotech is limited to industrial, (or medical)
> settings, it's just another way of achieving the things we already assume
> are happening.

Thank you, Alan.
You CAN allow interested players to have nanotech without upsetting the
economics.  Set bounds!

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:44:10 -0400
From: otter@labyrinth.net
Subject: Canon, background, etc

During the 80s, I played CT for some time, never reaching the heights
(depths?) of involvement evidenced by some of the posters to this list.
Recently, I began assembling materials to start GMing a GURPS campaign
around the early part of 2000, and subscribed to TML.  Now I'm starting to
realize that I have absolutely no idea what half of you are talking about.
=(  The problem is that I don't think I ever encountered a lot of the
background which seems to be old hat to the majority of posters, and while
it all seems extremely interesting, due to budget constraints I can't
exactly pick up every CT product and JTAS ever published.  So like a piker,
I'm wondering if there's some readily (i.e. very cheaply) accessible source
from which I can garner at least the basics of the CT campaign background
- -- Imperial political figures, history, etc.  The CT stuff is what I'm most
interested in, as I stopped playing long before MT, and TNE doesn't sound
like my cuppa.  I would appreciate any input I can get, and yes I realize
that some people feel the whole GURPS thing is heretical etc.  =)  Thank
you very much for your help, and I've been uniformly pleased with the
quality of the list.

Otter Driver

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:51:58 -0500
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com>
Subject: Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle

> >>>But I wanted more than a couple hours of flight time.  
> 
> Then you want more than a cramped seat for the pilot. Look at pilot
> fatigue under Routine Travel (p143). With no quarters, and a cramped
> seat the pilot is suffering one point of fatigue per hour. 

Holy Crap!!!  That's horrible.

The information under Short/Long term occupancy is vague.  Short 
Term is a few hours.  Long Term is Days ... plural.  What about the 
time in the middle?

> To save space consider using two roomy seats that fold up into a
> bunk and installing a small galley (p77 Bunks & Short Occupancy
> Vehicles)

This would make sense in light of the information on waste disposal. 
At least a bunk includes the volume for a toilet.
 
Also, what are we to do with the Ship's Boat?  It carries 96 (more if 
outfitted as such) passengers for up to 24 hours!  Where are they 
gonna do their business?

Perhaps you should redesign those vessels and submit them to 
Chris for inclusion in Starships (or SJG for erratatizing).


- - - -
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)

- - Encrypt your messages!
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!

- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!

- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)

- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto

- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.

Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at
     http://www.felixcafe.com/

- - - -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:11:03 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Nanotech not-run-amok: here's how

>* Nanots are produced in an expensive, specialized factory
>(which only produces one type of nanot)
>* Nanots are simple; that's what makes them affordable, but then
>* Nanots are one-function only
>(Nanots do not reproduce: that would be their one-function!)
>* Nanots have a half-life
>
>Make them expensive and limited.  If you want, make them critical
>for a technology and you've got the makings of an interstellar
>collapse.

I would think the Imperial government would set strict policies and
guidelines in the useage of nanotech.  Defenetitally it would be a capital
offense to make reproducing nanites.  As to their having a hal-life, yes
that seems very logical too.


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:04:07 PDT
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>A change to 'standard laminate' on the Intrepid would reduce cost to $12.8M 
>and it winds up with F6/18,000, O4/6,000.  Given the reduction in its 
>primary gun due to the changes in huge energy weapon stats, this would at 
>least mean it can penetrate its frontal armor by hotshotting its main gun, 
>which otherwise it can't do.

Stat changes? Are these official or unofficial? I didn't see any on the 
latest errata for Star Mercs?

A generous and sadistic GM,

Brandon Cope

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:48:22 +0100
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
Subject: Re: GTL9 Standard Components

Robert Prior wrote:
>Another point is that once your design is out in the public domain SJG
>probably won't use it in their product, which means that the best designs
>may be rendered unusable. 

Hey, that was a compliment. I'm sure you didn't mean it, but I'll take it anyway
:-^

So Gurps modules, designed using Gurps rules, in the public domain cannot be
used by SJG for copyright reasons? That I didn't know.

What about stuff on web sites? TML Gearheads have got an awful lot of GT designs
and modules out there already.

>>Is it more fun in (hands tied) than out (hands free)?

>In, definately. Not only does on get one's name in print, but you get all
>the playtest stuff plus the PD stuff. 

Plus I get to spend much more time on-line, run up a huge telephone bill, and
neglect my family and work.

Plus I get to work for nothing and somebody else profits by it.

>There's also the added attraction of helping create the official background.

I knew there'd be a downside.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:14:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: GTL9 5 dTon Shuttle

Bont writes:
> 
> Holy Crap!!!  That's horrible.
> 
> The information under Short/Long term occupancy is vague.  Short 
> Term is a few hours.  Long Term is Days ... plural.  What about the 
> time in the middle?

Short term, but use roomier seats.  Roomy seats are acceptable for a full day; normal seats are tolerable for a day, if uncomfortable.  Unclear how you add toilets and sinks to short-term occupancy vehicles, I think it's assumed as part of access space for large vehicles.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:20:10 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Cybernetic Implants

Peter Trevor writes:
>I have heard that some complex coordination skills (such
>as playing the piano) may be performed (at least partially)
>in the spinal cord rather the brain.  This being so would 
>the recipient of a spinal cord transplant from a concert
>pianist gain an aptiude for piano playing?

	It is probably more useful to refer to the "central
	nervous system" (CNS) than the brain and spinal chord.
	I am a little rusty, but the apart from the well-known
	message-carrying function of the spinal chord, it also
	carries out "brain-like" functions as well.  Thus, 
	transplanting parts of the CNS to another being may well
	allow transplant of aptitudes or even knowledge and
	skills.  I expect that, especially with physical skills
	(such as piano playing), the rest of the brain and body
	would have to adapt to and train in the new abilities.

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:21:24 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: PBeM TCS Islands Campaign

Cynthia Higginbotham writes:
>Keep posting about this, and I'll finally be motivated to
>put the designs and chronicles from Steve's PBeM TCS Islands
>campaign of a few years back on my web page.

	Consider it posted again  :)

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:21:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Nanotech not-run-amok: here's how

Jory Earl writes:

> I would think the Imperial government would set strict policies and
> guidelines in the useage of nanotech.  Defenetitally it would be a capital
> offense to make reproducing nanites.  As to their having a hal-life, yes
> that seems very logical too.
 
No, wrong attitude; banning things in that way just leads to trouble.  Just say that long-term (i.e. stable over multiple reproductions) self-reproducing nanites are not viable with imperial technology.  This isn't really an unreasonable assumption, most fictional (or even quasi-fictional, such as most of the more optimistic 'science' writers) nanotech commits severe violations of thermodynamics, because it never explain where the power to operate the nanites comes from.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:26:51 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Galileo!

At 06:44 PM 10/19/99 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>I'm not sure what the latest "space rated" CPU is, but at that time
it
>was the RCA 1802 (same chip used in the *ancient* "ELF" computer
>training kits from the 70s).

	My copy of SMAD* is at work, but it lists some. The only one I
recall off the top of my head is the Rad6000--a rad-hardened, space
rated version of IBM's R/6000 processor; 32-bit running at (IIRC)
33MHz. I know there are several other 32-bit CPUs currently being
offered or in works (even rumors of somebody trying to port the
Pentium to a more resistant technology).

*SMAD: Space Mission Analysis and Design. Kind of an overview of
*everything* you need to know for spacecraft design; helpful for a
single engineer to do quick'n'dirty Back Of The Envelope sizing and
feasibility estimates.

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:27:00 +0100
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
Subject: RE: GT: Starships

Christopher Thrash wrote:

>I would much rather fix the sourcebook before it comes out. The
>only way I can accept those comments is through the official playtest
>process.

Approximately how much time would that take up?
 
> >What's the general view of play testers and refuseniks, particularly
> >gearheads?
> >Is it more fun in (hands tied) than out (hands free)?

>The compilor's view is that this sourcebook is supposed to be a
>collaboration. If you don't care to help, that's okay, but don't complain
>too much about it afterward.

I noticed you didn't say it would be more fun. Are you feeling stressed?

It would be both a financial and time penalty for me to help. I can live with
the additional phone charges for online time but I don't think I can commit any
more time to my hobbies than I do already. Something would have to give -
probably the TML. Hmm, I probably need a break from it anyway.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:28:48 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: test - ignore

At 09:50 PM 10/19/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> You dirty thief!! Oh...waitaminute. I don't even know who Joseph
>> Sobran is, yet I quote him. Maybe I should a least run downstairs
to
>> the encyclopedia before I accuse anyone. ;-)
>
>He's a conservative columnist.  Imagine someone just a bit to the
right
>of Rush Limbaugh, and without Rush's sense of humor....

	Huh? I thought to the right of RL wrapped around the edge of the
universe and become left! 

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:34:56 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: archives

At 08:06 PM 10/20/99 +0300, you wrote:
>Due to some unfortunate hassles with my computer, I've been out of
touch of the list for almost two months. Therefore I'd like to know
where could I find the planetology and xenobiology threads. If
someone has archived them, please tell me how I could obtain a copy.
Also where are the digest archives located, and how can I access
them?

	I saved what I felt were key messages for my later perusal, but
haven't yet perused. I also keep a complete archive of all my
incoming email, so I should have copies of everything if it's not
online.

- -- "Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may
   be watching" 
   -- H. L. Mencken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:53:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Amorphous Aliens

Hi all.  

I've gotten a number of interesting reading suggestions and examples of
amorphous sorts of creatures from people.  While I would like to follow up
on these eventually, I was wondering if folks could fill me in on the
principles behind these examples in the mean time.  Forex, what is the
stated evolutionary history of the amorphous types in _Rocheworld_, _The
Green Brain_ and so on?  What is the mechanism behind their
shape-changing? Is much detail given in these novels? 


Now for some other replies:

<Peez>
        This is an excellent scenerio for the evolution of a
        multi-unit organism, but you should add in a good
</Peez>

Thanks, glad you liked it.

<Peez>
        reason that the super-organism remains unspecialized
        in form.  Perhaps it evolves underground, in passages
        and caverns where being large and reducing surface
        area are important, but being able to squeeze through
</Peez>

Ya, that's one thing I thought would be difficult to come up with.  For
starters why does this hive insect become integrated?  What is the
evolutionary benefit?  And once it has done so, why does it not specialize
into something more like a "normal" creature?  Thanks for the suggestion,
I know I haven't been able to come up with anything better.

<Peez>
        The biggest problems would be to get food and air to
        all parts of the organism, remove wastes from same, and
</Peez>

This might be accomplished by a sort of migration of the cell masses,
which hold enough "supplies" to last for a migration cycle or two.  They
would also store their wastes until they reached the outer covering,
discarding them once there.  Or they could hand them over to the queen for
more central disposal. 

Alternatively, one could postulate a form of non-centralized
specialization.  There would be cell masses whose job it was to transport
wastes and others which would transport food (these two could be the same
maybe, going back and forth).  The only difference between this and the
sort of specialization we have is that there is no structural segregation
of the different types of cell masses.  They're all distributed more or
less evenly throughout the creature. 

<Peez>
        large, relatively unspecialized mass.  Nevertheless,
        such an organism is no more inconceivable than some
        other aspects of Traveller.  I designed a Traveller
</Peez>

What?  There are less-than-plausible aspects of Traveller?!  Heretic! :-)

<Peez>
        T2-like robot, made up of subunits ranging in size from
        (relatively) simple nanites up to energy cell units
        5 cm across.  A biological version might also have been
</Peez>

I could see this creature being similar, with some relatively large cell
masses for particular purposes.

<Peez>
        designed.  How about you post your creature when you
        get it done?
</Peez>

Sure, dunno when that will be though...  

<Bruce Johnson>
Hmmm...we had a discussion some time ago abou such a race; the interesting
thing about them being that they would devlop calculus before they
developed algebra, since without digit's it would be unlikely that finite
</Bruce>

Hoo hoo!  I _like_ this idea.  I might just lift it! :-)

<Bruce>
This had implications for language, and in fact the duscussion started as
a discussion of a race that used color as their language.
</Bruce>

I guess their language would be much more oriented towards gradual shifts
as opposed to black-or-white dicrete thinking.  However, there might still
be some of this left in the queen from my example, since she's originally
a discrete multi-limbed creature.  

Hey, how much evidence is there that our thing for 10 is a result of our
10 digits?  I've heard this before and it makes a kind of intuitive sense,
but is there anything more to the idea than that?

Thanks for all the feedback and interesting ideas,
Charles C.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1233
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